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Karen ODell zooidodell at
Mon Mar 24 19:49:03 PST 2003

DATE: March 23, 2003
LOCATION: Rio Rancho, NM
TEACHERS: Andromadeus, a Most High
Machiventa Melchizedek, our Prince
and the host for Q&A: Tomas
TOPICS: Negotiation as a Teaching Tool
The Nature of Justice
T/r’s: Gerdean (for Tomas and Andromadeus)
Matthew (for Machiventa Melchizedek)
Music: Elena on Piano
Selection: "What Wondrous Love Was This!"
Composer: W. Walker’s Southern Harmony, 1835
Prayer: (Matthew) Let us place ourselves in the presence of Jesus, the
Master Teacher, we seek your company and your guidance on many of the
topics that confront us today. It seems that we are confronted with the
real thing, now. It’s no longer theory, "What if" and "What then, if" and
all of the questions. Now the question is love and our commitment to it.
Enable us to be fully aware of You in our lives and in our life with The
Father and that they become real to us -- beyond simply principle and
platitude, but the real thing, that we know we are survivors because we
are alive and living in the spirit now as we will whenever our time for
changing our venue comes about.
We seek the teachings of the teachers you designate today so we are
enabled to be children of faith, the faith that is real and beyond just
believe, but in knowing. And in all of the things that you know within
our hearts that are in need of correction or addressing for someone else
who is going through transition or transformation in one form or another,
we place before you now. And in appreciation for this gift of life and of
faith that we are living and the opportunity to express it as we are, in
communion right now, we are forever grateful. Amen.
TOMAS: Gracious assemblage of mortal workers and celestial associates, it
gives me great pleasure to be your host this afternoon in this gathering
of souls in search of ways to be of service to humanity in these
troublous times of growth.
We have a guest here today among the throng of heavenly hosts who hover
to hear your hearts beat in unison with the pulse of Paradise. I remain
your loyal friend and will return in the course of time, in order to
follow up and fraternize, but for now I beg your ear to the focus of our
visitor who is a Most High, Andromadeus.
ANDROMADEUS: By leave of Machiventa Melchizedek, I am here in your midst
today to be of service to your efforts as soldiers of the circles, as
devoted students of beauty, goodness, and truth.
I have been sent in this capacity by the Ancients of Days who administer
in the local universes as well as in the superuniverses, in order to
embellish your appreciation of the value of negotiation as a teaching
tool. In support of the Teacher Corp of this system, I am eager to give
you a lesson in the art of negotiation in terms of your teaching
ministry. You who are the children of God, conscious denizens of the
mortal world as well as the cosmic neighborhood, are called upon to serve
in the capacity of Ambassadors of the Kingdom, and not merely as temporal
beings embroiled in a mortal conflict affecting the evolution of the
world Urantia.
You will not be able to step outside of the collective consciousness in
your ministry for the principle of war is upon you all. While you retain
your loyalty in truth to the greater reality, the work of the field
portrays itself in many respects as the attitudes of humanity are
presented through the philosophies they maintain or subscribe to by and
through their appreciation of what reality is – in the main, a material
reality. It will not serve the kingdom, thus, to assert yourself as
assuming a position on one side or the other, no, for this further sets
humankind apart one from the other.
As Ambassadors, it behooves you to be a mediator between points of view
because this tactic of (a) knowing who you are and being that "calm in
the eye of the hurricane" and (b) being active in the ministry of the
realm in which you live, in full appreciation of this technique of
problem-solving and conflict resolution, will be a part of your pattern
of procedure from now into infinity. Be therefore open to learning the
skills that bridge differences, that melt down barriers. This is not a
simple assignment.
The fact that you have all been a party to conflict of one kind or
another, that your lives are a balance of behavior patterns which conform
to the norm, thus allowing what you might consider the norm to prevail --
even while growth gives rise to new patterns and new realizations -- be
prepared to find the meeting ground between what is and what will be; the
playing field between what is apparent and what is hidden; the
battlefield between what is right for one as compared to what is right
for another. For these differences will always exist, inasmuch as every
living thing is individual and unique, especially in such a world as
yours where experimentation is an applied science.
Judging is complex. When the Ancients of Days ask for a reflection of an
individual entity, it is always allowed for the imperfect entity to be
seen in the best possible light, because of an appreciation of the
background and the motivating factors involved in the development of the
human being, as he is and as he stands in the light of truth today, at
this moment. And thus there is considerable background information that
is required to delve into in order to make an assessment in any
situation. And when it involves two people and the nature of the
arrangement or relationship (or lack of arrangement or relationship)
between them, it is even more complicated, and to be the surveyor of all
the world and attempt to discern the conflicts that are in existence on
Urantia today is beyond your capacity. It is in the hands of those of us
On High who are managing the affairs of your world, even with your
peculiar situation and free will.
Your job then, as ambassadors of the kingdom, is to deal with the
battlefield at hand in front of your face -- in the workplace, in the
marketplace, in the area of influence over which you preside. Rather than
polarize your fellows, be a comforting presence, a voice of sanity,
exemplary of balanced thought, unemotional due consideration. Call upon
divine wisdom to guide your tongue in these "negotiations" with your
Be peacekeepers, even as you become the listener for those whose opinions
are different from your own. Be like the Ancients of Days who comprehend
and appreciate how the entity has been formulated, what value he or she
upholds, what merit they offer humankind, and the divine path they seek
to follow. For like yin and yang, like male and female, like light and
darkness, there are realms of sheer harmony when the conflict is set
aside to embrace the values you share. Seek to find the values you share
with each moment, each ministry presented to you. In this way you will
assist the Most Highs and we will be effective in our efforts to rule in
the kingdoms of men.
I am Andromadeus, a Most High. Good day.
GROUP: (Thank you.)
TOMAS: Tomas again here for a moment. I see another guest in eagerness to
speak. I will pass the microphone to Matthew to voice our Prince.
MACHIVENTA: I am with you all. It is again by popular request that I am
with you today. It is furthermore by popular demand that the words of our
upward leadership in the godhead structure was made known to you as well.
It is to bring you hope and encouragement that you are not alone and that
in this struggle to understand your place in this world, it is imperative
that you understand what our view is toward your difficulty. It is not
nor will it ever be impartial distance or the refusal to get involved, as
if concerned about offending one side or the other.
It is as if a parent, seeing warring children, can take preference of one
child to the disadvantage of another, for aren’t their concerns, their
needs, their ambitions inherently the same, however differently viewed?
As Jacob and Esau saw their roles and had roles that were markedly
different, their value, their principles, their intrinsic value, was
nonetheless of equal importance. So it is that we find ourselves as we do
with you, concerned about the ultimate justice to the prevalence of love
and the exactitude of justice as it meted out.
Justice, after all, is like a dove. It has no sharpness. It has no
punishment. It has only what is fair, right and true. Like a dove, its
gentle fluttering wings find roost upon that which it can find its rest.
It will rest upon that which provides stability and certainty for its
placement. So, too, is truth as it lives within the heart of men, but
inspired by the Spirit of God. It is in this placement that justice finds
a home. I encourage each of you to do as Andromadeus delivered, to
practice as instructed, to be ambassadors of peace, to practice that
which is necessary to do because in your world at the material level,
there will certainly always be room for disagreement. There will be ample
opportunity for disdain and disharmony. It is calling upon those who have
chosen the path of true righteousness, that is, to seek the right in the
situation, to practice that which they believe to be right, and to find
that, in truth, and to do this instead of taking one side versus the
other wherein such placement you are only left, like Solomon, trying to
divide the child and, after all, this only leaves half of a whole. Such
is your world without divine placement and divine inspiration.
It is the high road, the road less traveled that you are called to take.
It is in this that you will find great of solitude but also great
turmoil. For you to remove your roots from your world in its temporal
viewpoint, or materialistic perspective, will be difficult for you to do
from a temporal point of view. To remove yourself from this, from purely
a materialistic mindset, will be trying to step out of a platform of tar
which is stretching yet pulling you back into place, so it is necessary
in spirit for you to lift beyond the limitations of a material framework
into that which is both material and spirit, to be more than you
apparently are called to be, but to be all that you know yourself called
to be.
It is in this stead that I place you truly within our realm as
ambassadors along the Father’s path. Much like the Appian Way was known
to be the road that connected all roads to Rome, the road to your
Father’s home is in your heart and in your mind, leading straight ahead
in your connection to the Father. Let this be your guiding light. As it
is said "all roads lead to Rome," all hearts lead to our heavenly father.
Let it be true and real today as it will be for all time and beyond, that
the relationship that is you with our Father must be demonstrated here
today among our ambassadors. I encourage you, I give you strength, and I
-- most of all – leave you in the security of knowing that the love of
all time and beyond all ages is yours today as it always will be.
Peace be with you and may your hearts know only truth, happiness, and the
security that you are one with all that is. Peace be with you, and may
you live well beyond your years. Amen.
TOMAS: Tomas, your teacher, resuming his post. Anatolia and I are pleased
to be assigned to this configuration. The administration of Ham and the
guidance of Abraham have once more proven to me to be worthy of
subscription. What a delight to find myself in your company. How
delightful it is to see you again, child, Miriam.
MIRIAM: Thank you, Tomas.
TOMAS: Welcome! We miss Thoroah and the companionship today of Menopah
and Paula, but we take comfort in the strength and solidarity of the core
group here which has been such a challenge and such an opportunity for
us. We give thanks today, too, for those beyond the circumference of our
gathering, in the hinterlands of humanity who have harkened unto our
voices and found value therein. Be ye advised we are parts of the
orchestration of the musical scores of the spirit which lift us into the
harmony of universal sovereignty, which is the song of angels and the
rites of passage through the maze of imperfection into the glory of
Have you been diligent in my class assignment of last week? Did any of
you give gifts and/or did any of you ponder the lesson of giving,
actually making that conscious effort to bridge the gap of conflict and
apply the oversoul of creation to your petty differences that stand
between you and the oneness of universal harmony?
ELENA: I do not think I was very diligent but I did put out a couple of
attempts. There were a couple of people on the airplane who were
don’t know
just bugging me! There was a woman who pushed her way into
the line and she just
the back of her neck annoyed me. This is really
petty on my part, but
so I just decided, "okay, maybe there was some
reason why she needed to
" so I was just going to try to overlook my
annoyance at her. And there was a guy who had a sound with his teeth
after he was eating that just drove me bananas, and I was really trying
to get beyond that and trying to say, "okay, well, you know, this is
really not a monumental thing" so I can’t say I was diligent, but
mean, there were a couple of examples where I tried to get beyond
TOMAS: Alright. I consider that you have been practicing the admonition
to turn the other cheek. Yes. Anyone else?
MYRA: I did nothing. But I didn’t get angry at something that I heard
that was about a student of mine who really needs a hearing aid and the
parent does not think it is necessary, and they said it would be fine if
I didn’t speak with my hand in front of my mouth and it was very nice. My
response was that I did understand her view as a parent and that was a
hard thing to do. I was just relaying information that I saw as a
teacher, and I would have to record what my feelings were as a teacher
and I would certainly record her feeling as a parent. So I just thought
that I validated her feelings.
TOMAS: You are becoming a mediator. Already you are negotiating
solutions. Anyone else?
ESMARELDA: I was trying to think of something this week. I thought about
it several times. I did give it thought. But I really didn’t have any
conflicts this week. I can’t
I just didn’t. But I did consider myself
very fortunate that I had none, but I certainly did give your assignment
TOMAS: Good girl. Gerdean, what did you do, if anything?
GERDEAN: I had in mind all along to give some peach blossoms to this
woman at work who, I think, has it in for me. And I’m therefore rather
paranoid around her. I even picked the blossoms and put them in a vase,
but when I walked past her office
I couldn’t figure out how to get the
flowers onto her desk. I wasn’t able to take that literal walk. However,
since I had prayed about it, and had gone that far with it, I had the
good fortune of encountering her in the ladies room one day and I was
able to smile at her openly and without any residue of our conflict, so I
feel your lesson was effective, Tomas, even though I was unable to act on
it 100%. I did act on 100% the spirit of the lesson, if that counts.
ESMARELDA: I find it interesting, Tomas, my two daughters this week.
Dorenda said that
and they were both paranoid this week
and Dorenda
said that two people irritated her and she coped with it, which she copes
very well with most everything. And then my other daughter, my younger
daughter, Deborah (Miriam), also related to me that on the airplane while
she was traveling here, that irritated her! She was sitting by a man who

MIRIAM: Oh, now she’s telling my stories! And now everyone knows it’s
Deborah and Miriam. Everyone out there will know who this is. Okay. Go
for it, Mother.
ESMARELDA: But I just thought it was
the reason I mention it is because
they both had the same type of experience. I think Deborah’s was a little
longer lasting than Dorenda’s because Dorenda’s was in the line, but
Deborah’s was for the whole trip. But they both coped with them well, and
did the spiritually correct thing, I think, and, as usual, I’m always
very proud of both of them.
DEBORAH: Well, thank you, Mother.
DORINDA: Then after the tape is over, we’ll hear the full story.
DEBORAH: Well, actually, okay
. Matthew, did you
Would you care to go?
Because you actually got the official assignment.
MATTHEW: Yeah, I was like dread hearing a teacher say it’s like time to
hand in your homework. [Group laughter] I was hoping they would notice I
wasn’t here, or something.
When Deborah and I were talking, I think yesterday on the phone, about
the whole political thing, I said that I
this doesn’t really relate.
It’s like the antithesis -- but it was at least intended to be a good
thing, and not even gift-giving -- but a friend of mine is a political
conservative and just likes to wear that like a "Kiss me, I’m Irish" kind
of sign, and it just invites conflict. So, he wants to get into it with
the political situation and I tried to avoid it like the plague and every
time I just give him some kind of an answer of my feeling and let it go
at that, he comes back with, "Oh, you. Come on, come on. Tell me what you
really think!" and in the process of his sharing his thoughts with me, he
said that because I am apparently a leftist, that I’m also a socialist,
and that I want the government to take care of me.
So I thought, okay, them’s fightin’ words. I’m off the fence. And I wrote
back to him and I said, "I really don’t take
I’m not insulted easily,
but this is insulting." So I went on just to levy it back so hopefully he
could get the point that "How dare you!?" So I said, "Since you’re a
conservative, apparently you’re also in favor of concentration camps and
genocide. Is that true?" And I said, "Erase all of that, but really the
point is that my political philosophy is that if we believe light and
life is going to be here eventually, if we don’t practice it now, how are
we going to recognize it when it pops up? So that’s what I’m about, and
let’s not beat each other over the head with our philosophies any more
because it isn’t fun! Peace be with you, and tootles." I haven’t heard
back from him, so
I feel like I slammed him in one way, but wanted to
convey truth in the other. In other words, "open your eyes to what the
message is and get off of this ideological bandwagon." So, no, I didn’t
practice what the point was but I finally at least got off the fence and
tried to not be concerned any longer for ruffling his feathers, and I’ll
just let it go at that.
TOMAS: I will comment, and then we will hear Miriam’s story.
TOMAS: Your preamble included the remark that he was your friend. If this
is true, he will remain your friend. He will perhaps smart at your
directed remarks, but he will think about your remarks, as well. Whether
or not they have an impact on him is his concern and not yours, for you
have expressed your philosophy as he has expressed his philosophy and
that is that.
The whole point behind having the knowledge of negotiating skills is to
help you rise above those philosophies which appear to be diametrically
opposed and find a meeting ground. It is not intended for mediocrity to
set in and all your views become the same. But to instill an appreciation
for differences.
You are engaging in this exchange long distance and through electronic
communications. If you were face to face, your entanglement may be
carried out differently, but as to that, it is possible we will never
know. Even so, you have a background of friendship and enough in common
that I feel you will both be able to set aside your political ideologies
I favor of a social sweetness that will allow for fraternity to override
the differences.
If peace cannot be sought, at least war can be eliminated. If
conversations are still on-going, negotiations are still possible. If the
door is left open, growth is possible. If it comes to you in prayer time
to act as a peacemaker in that relationship context, it would be in
keeping with the spirit of our work if you were to make moves toward
resuming discourse rather than allowing the chasm to remain and widen
between you.
But what went on in the airplane?
MIRIAM: Tomas, by reading your lessons I can tell you never miss a beat.
Well, actually, the thing in the airplane seemed minimal to me. I mean, I
conversed about it, but there was a fellow sitting next to me who was
really in a strong place of who he was and what he wanted and how he
wanted it, and he was young, and he was just very set in doing what he
was, and as he shared that, he shared it in a way that just kind of
assumed everyone was like that.
And so, he would talk and I would listen and I would listen and I would

like, for example, he would say, "I hate camping. Why would you want to
camp when you got a Ritz Carlton available?" and I said, "Well, I know
the creature comforts of those places are really nice, but Wow! You can
really see the stars great at night when you’re camping out in the wild."
It was an exchange like that, basically, where what he said would just
challenge who I was, but I kept trying to give him space to be who and
what he thought was important, and it just kept going. So that was what
the basic deal was about. Which actually wasn’t an issue to me, it was
just another opportunity, another happenstance to realize that I’m not
the same as everybody and they’re not the same as me, and I need to give
them space to be who they are and then also to just love them, and
we didn’t get into any negative words, at all. I just kept giving him
space and thinking, "Okay! Have fun growing up."
TOMAS: He was young, yes, and
what do you say? "Feeling his oats." And
you were a good spar for him.
DEBORAH: Yeah, and that’s really kind of what it was, too. He’d do it and
then I’d respond and yeah, that’s great. Right on, Tomas. Actually, I was
thinking that your lesson this week coincided with Abraham's very well,
because you were saying pray for the one who gives you the most
resentment, is basically what I got out of what your challenge was, and
Abraham has been talking about how we can live better with our Thought
Adjusters, and kind of clear the path that way, and it seems to coincide.
And I love the way that Most High guy said that we were "soldiers of the
circles" because, you know, it’s the internal battle with us in our mind,
and then we get to play with our fellows and have the conflict of their
deal with ours and how to remedy all that. How to balance it. How to--
So my example this week was my sister in law, who I didn’t give something
special to. I didn’t write something to her and I didn’t give her a gift,
but I gave her the gift of my time in service, because she’s handicapped,
and I tried to do it in a more loving way this week and I tried to just
put some blinders on and not go into the neighborhood where I usually go.
And the other example was with a family member, who has a very different
viewpoint than I do, and I tried to practice some humor and some love
with that meeting so we could both exist where we were. And it wasn’t
that easy to do those things but I’m thinking "I can get the hang of
this" and I think it’ll be there.
TOMAS: I am not worried about any of you. I am not fearful that you will
backfire and reflect poorly on the Spirit. You are all beautiful. Even
your individual aberrations are a mere flourish of color on an otherwise
solid field. I have great faith in you as Jesus has great faith in you
and have every confidence that having the spiritual experience you have,
each of you, when you find yourself in a situation -- speaking out or
dealing firmly with a situation, standing up for what you believe in, in
the face of attempts to undermine your reality – you will be reflecting a
If it is not heard as a value, let it go. You have a right to be and
others have a right to be here. If, in your learning to negotiate, you
fail to recognize the personal sovereignty of each individual, it is your
lesson to learn that I know you will perceive, recognize and go forth
with. Therefore, do not worry so much about how you have not met certain
standards, because who is to say how those standards came to be in the
first place? Rather, be yourself, and learn from yourself through your
efforts, through your mistakes, and through your strengths.
What a marvelous gift you have been given by being given the gift of
life, of recognizing the miracle of free will, and the rights of others
to have a chance to make their own mistakes and grow their own religious
experience as well. Be at peace with everything.
DEBORAH: Can I ask a question or are you getting ready to go?
TOMAS: Your timing is impeccable. [Group giggles]
DEBORAH: I loved the reference to Ancient of Days! I just loved that! You
know, when I was a little kid I used to be afraid of the whole religious
gig, and as I get to know more and more about it, of course, like the
more I get to know Michael, it’s like a loving thing? And when I read in
the book about the Ancients of Days, it’s like dun-dada-dun! The Ancients
of Days! And I loved the reference! It seemed like they were like this
loving entity and I know they are way up there and really cool, but I
really loved the way Andromadeus referenced them, in that, they look at
us in context of where we are and who we – you know what it said, that
perspective of how they look at us? That just gave me a lot of peace and
a lot of really happy intrigue about the Ancients of Days. If you have
anything you can share about them or whatever you want to do. That was
really cool.
TOMAS: This thread we have enjoyed today from the Most High and Prince
Machaventa has reflected the reality of the Ancients of Days in
discussing Justice and this is the quality we invite you to adopt and
allow in yourselves: the greater perspective of love, which judges kindly
as compared to the tendency to convict your fellows that the lesser value
of judgment can hold. Inasmuch as it is beyond any of us to judge
according to the value of any individual. It is only the higher
consciousness of the Ancients of Days that are given that dubious honor.
It is indeed a release from the obligations of judgment that we honor
their role in our Greater Universe. In this context, is judgment
understood and enjoyed.
It will mean more to you perhaps when you read the transcript or when you
review the definition of Ancients of Days in your text. But it will
become meaningful when you appreciate in your heart of hearts how loved
you are that your existence is protected by the divine and not belittled
by the short-sighted perspective of the finite. Open your minds, open
your hearts, open your souls to the radiance of divine love, the love
that rains upon us, that washes the dust from our feet as we wearily
weave our way. What else have you this afternoon before we close?
MATTHEW: Just thank you for the cavalcade of celestials today. That was
(GROUP): Yes! Oh, yeah! Thank you, one and all. I’m very grateful to all
of you.
DORENDA: I’m really grateful for some of the pointers on how to deal with
the situations that we find. I really find that to be helpful and
examples of how we would put it to use. That it doesn’t have to be on a
national basis, but in our own neighborhood, and that’s what we’re trying
to learn how to do, so I really appreciate that, too.
TOMAS: You are a joy, all of you. The Teacher Corps and its
administration is full to bursting with awareness of your integrity, as
we are also in appreciation for those other bases of operation which
anchor you who hear us, and who seek to do the will of the Universal
Father as has been exemplified in the life of the Master. Carry on in
your realm, in your scope, in your range of operation in which you are
perfect, even as He in His realm is perfect, and we will see you next
week. Amen and farewell.
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