[tmtranscripts] S.E. Idaho Transcript 4-19-02

Bill Kelly billk at ida.net
Tue Apr 23 21:23:19 PDT 2002

SE IDAHO/Pocatello TeaM
April 19, 2002

Opening Prayer (Bob S): My children, let us be in prayer.  Open, Father,
the hearts and minds of all mortals gathered here tonight to receive the
wisdom which has been prepared for their education.  We thank you for this
opportunity we have as elder brothers and sisters to provide this
faith-building word to those, which have been provided by others, in the
name of him whom we all serve.  Amen.

Daniel (Bob S): Greetings my friends, my students, my partners in this
quest for a more mature ascendancy.  This is Daniel.  I will open tonight's
meeting, but I am not the major presenter.  We all took great heart from
your enthusiastic discussions from the last transcript, and we shall
attempt to build upon the questions and the insights which you demonstrated
earlier.  Later on, I shall summarize and open the meeting for further
questions following those of the major presenter.  So if you have questions
of a general nature please hold them and we shall attempt to get at them at
the close of tonight's session.  With these words of introduction I now
step aside for our visiting brother.  One moment please.

Rayson (Bill): Hello, my friends, It is I, Rayson, once again with you this
evening.  As Daniel has said we were pleased with your good table manners
as you applied yourselves to the offerings of last weeks meal carefully
dissecting at times, chewing with pleasure, and swallowing for the purpose
ingesting that information into intelligent and spiritually motivated
souls.  Because of your willingness to engage in what could be described as
theoretical considerations, although they are of great practical import, we
sense that you are no longer babes in arms but you have become maturing
adults able to handle more substantial foods.  In other words because you
were willing to engage in difficult material and you did not sent me
packing I have returned like the proverbial penny.  [Laughter.]   I have
returned but not with any sense of being unwelcome or the need to justify
my presence.

A number of points were brought out in last week's conversation.  It was an
overview and an introduction to your relationship and my relationship with
the Supreme.  In the light of the fact that all of the material has a
degree of relevance, it was suggested to me that it might be best to let
you give input as to what you would like to have me further discuss this
evening.  I am not asking you to formulate questions at this time, but
asking you if you have a preference, a topic, among the many that I touched
upon that you would like to see amplified and elucidated.  I pause now for
your input.  (Pause.)  Does your silence betoken that you are fully
satisfied with the material that was presented, or does it suggest that you
are bored and prefer to move on to another subject, or perhaps does your
silence indicate that you are tired and that you don't want the
responsibility of helping decide on tonight's agenda?

Bob S: There was one possibility.  When we were discussing  earlier tonight
your earlier lesson we were asking about those ties when we sense our
awareness of a bigger kingdom, perhaps of God, and our role in it that you
discussed last time, but we came up with very few examples.  Does that
suggest that some more discussion on your part would help us, or do we need
to just think about that some more?  Do you have an idea there, or do some
of your brothers have a sense of why we seem to be struggling with personal
examples in our lives?

Rayson (Bill): The materials were presented in regard to the connection
that some people feel to the larger reality, a vague sense of higher power,
etc., as evidence for the fact that there is an unconscious, intuitive
awareness on the part of all living beings of their connectedness to the
whole.  It was not described or mentioned for the purpose that you need
necessarily be seeking that sort of mystical experience because you have
the advantage of revelation so that your knowledge on the subject is much
greater.  My point was that even those who do not have revelation regarding
 their relationship to the Supreme still have a largely unconscious sense
of their connection.  Therefor, Bob, it is not necessary for there to be
anything done, as you were questioning.  Does this clarify for you?

Bob S: Yes, that's very clear.  I guess I was thinking that if we are
people who are somewhat more advanced than other mortals spiritually on
this planet, then we would probably have had more of those experiences,
but, as you say, that is not necessarily the case, and I understand that.
What you are saying though raises another question and that is if all
people have some of these feelings, perhaps at a subconscious level, does
that improve the chances that we can make a contact with the people we meet
generally, and provide where possible, some increased spiritual help and
perhaps increase their spiritual education, or provide assistance to people
using this potential common ability?

Rayson (Bill): Yes, you are right on target, my friend.  I remind you of
the Apostle Paul, who, when he discovered a state to the Unknown God in
Athens, Greece, proceeded to use that as a connection to his hearers.  He
said "That which is unknown to you I now declare," and then preached about
the First Source and Center without using that terminology, the God and
Father of Jesus Christ.   He was aware that there was concern that their
concepts of God were incomplete.  They were polytheists and so they figured
they had better make a statue to any god they may have missed.  Paul,
wisely, was able use their framework of reference to present the Gospel.
So exactly in the same fashion, if you can find the frame of reference in
your friend that you have hopes of discussing, perhaps enlightening, then
you are sowing seeds in good soil, and that is indeed a commendable
approach  As far as explaining the Supreme to someone who does not know
clearly the First Source and Center, that might be a daunting task.
(Comments and laughter.)   About the many things that we covered last week,
is there another topic that I can further comment upon?

Virginia: Rayson, I don't know why I just thought of this.  So many people
whom I have experienced identify themselves as being an insignificant part,
to the point that they are a drop of water finding their way to the ocean
to become part of the whole, and lose their own personal identity in that
whole.  I just saw that picture as you were talking now.  How is it
possible to convince someone, who believes that they're ceasing to exist as
a person, to the wonder of Supreme Being waiting for fulfillment?

Rayson (Bill): You are correct, my friend, in seeing the vast difference in
concept between the whole being conceived of in impersonal terms so that
each individual person is a mere drop in the ocean of nonpersonal
existence, and the reality of the Supreme, which is fundamentally personal.
 Each person in the reality of the Supreme is part of an organic and living
unity which is conscious, and each person retains that individual
personality, so that merging with the Supreme is not losing one's self into
an unconscious, eternal whole, but gaining the consciousness of the entire
whole at the time of the completion of Supremacy.  It is a totally
different concept, yes.  

My suggestion is that you say something along these lines to your friend,
"But if you would consider this, there might be another way of looking at
our relationship to the whole," and then proceed to describe the exciting
concept of continued personal existence in an ever enhancing and expanding
field of reality.  Your friend, Dr. Tate, told this TR that there was no
comfort for him in the loss of his wife in the framework of this first
concept, this nonpersonal over-soul of creation, and he was right, for his
beloved, according to this concept, was forever gone.  He was not ready for
such a profound discussion as the Supreme could present, but Isaac is
hopeful that someday such a discussion may ensue.  Have I responded to your
statement, or do you wish me to say more?

Virginia: No, Rayson, that is fine, thank you.  It's just such a more
hopeful picture to think in terms of a personal God, and to know so much
more because we have contributed to our own potential.

Rayson (Bill): I thank you, however, for your comments regarding the fact
that even those who personally choose extinction do not thereby cancel out
the good that they did in their lives.  That continues in the Supreme, of
course.  That is a very important point.

Virginia: That is truly a gift to all of us.

Rayson (Bill): Yes.  Perhaps I need to clarify one thing, however.  When we
say that people choose not to exist, do not assume  the Supreme cannot
achieve perfected status because He is lacking the contribution of that
individual personality.  Other contributions will compensate; and the good,
as I said, is not lost.  Personality, hard to define as it is, has several
outstanding features.  One of them is to organize and unifie all
experience.  The personality of the Supreme Being will organize and unify
all the experience of all the personalities, creature and Creator, whom He
totals within his power-personality synthesis.  But we do regret those who,
for whatever  reason, throw in the towel and give up on the ascension
career.  It is not common, but it does happen.

Bob S: Rayson, we were talking earlier about those who choose not  to
continue, and I wondered how the Supreme compensated for that.  We talked
about other ways of doing that.  We concluded that disappointment had
experiential value.  Would it be helpful for us if you talked about some of
those other things you had in mind, but I leave that to your judgement if
you feel we could benefit from it.

Rayson (Bill): Your question is "Prove to me there is value in
disappointment."  [Bob laughs, then agrees.  The others feel further
information will help them as well.]  

Virginia: I am convinced that disappointment and mistakes and all the other
problems of mortal living are the only reason that I grow or change.  Go
ahead.  Convince me more.  [Laughter and comments.]  When I have a problem
I look for an answer.

Rayson (Bill): Very well, thank you for interest in this topic, and be
assured that I don't have the last word for I am a learner as well as a
teacher.  This is one of the topics that we apply and study in the morontia
career.  Let me see.  How to begin?  Let us think about what causes
disappointments.  Disappointment is the distance between what you expect
and what you get.  

Virginia: Miles apart.  [Laughter.]

Bob S: Or is it the difference between what you want and what you get, or
are they the same thing?

Rayson (Bill): Yes, Bob, the "want" may be a part of the expectation.  I
will not quibble or split hairs on that, but the wanting does not always
result in expectation.  There are people who want many things but have no
sense that their wants will ever come to pass.  Therefor, they're not
disappointed as those who truly expect a certain outcome and then it fails
to materialize.  Do you see the difference?  (Bob agrees.)  

OK, now disappointment, as I said, is that distance between what you expect
and what you get.  It is an ego function to some degree.  It is the purpose
of the ego part of your mind to plan and describe the boundaries of
reality, its contours and its limitations.  Therefor, it is part of ego
functioning to predict the future, to calculate not only the odds of the
stock market, but the probabilities of a successful vacation given the
weather reports, the highway conditions, these sorts of things.  In a way
disappointment is inevitable in as much as no evolutionary creature can
know the future with anything more that a certain degree of probability.
That error envelope, whether it be 5%, 15%, 30%, whatever, is the
possibility of disappointment.  So, let us admit that it impossible to live
a life without disappointment unless one is more or less mentally retarded
and cannot conceive of the future adequately.  Therefor, the cause of
disappointment is in the structure of reality itself.  It is in the nature
of being.  

The reaction to disappointment is a different matter.  Reactions to
disappointment can vary, and are not necessarily always negative.  Your
book talks about fattening on disappointment, which seems like an oxymoron,
if it were true that disappointment always results in discouragement,
depression, etc.  As one matures and grows older hopefully wisdom is
accompanying the aging of the body.  Should this gracious thing occur, that
you become wise as well as elderly, you can look back over your life and
find incidents of disappointments that proved to be great blessings in
disguise.  Had your plans come out the way you wanted them they might have
led you down dark and tangled pathways.  Had you gotten the job you wanted
you would have missed another career which turned out to be much more
soul-satisfying than the other career would have been.   So many of life's
greatest disappointments turn out, in retrospect,  to be great blessings.  

This is one of lessons of disappointments: that you are a limited mortal,
finite being who doesn't have the wisdom to foresee all the connections
that would be associated with a certain outcome that you hoped for.   So,
when it fails to happen, you have really no way of understanding whether it
is to your benefit and a blessing, indeed.  Consequently, as you grow older
and realize that your greatest disappointments have often become your
greatest blessings, you begin to lose the sense of frustration, of grief,
the sense of failure and anger when things don't go your way.  You began to
trust the over-care of the universe, which is really the over-care of God,
working for your greatest benefit, your spiritual growth, your intellectual

Many question why Jesus, as a Creator Son, had to die as a criminal on a
filthy wooden cross.  Remember his human nature could not understand why
this was required of him and shrank from the experience.  He felt the
disappointment of the "failure" of his mission.  He experienced the shame
of being associated with criminals.  "If it be possible," he cried, "let
this cup pass from me!!  But, nevertheless, not my will, but Yours be
done,".  His divine nature, his divine mind knew everything, but his human
mind was that, human, and he underwent the feeling of discouragement... but
not for long, not for long.  As soon as he uttered that prayer of
submission he was unified, and his disappointment became a triumph for he
experienced as a Creator Son the depth of degradation of human experience,
and thereby incorporated into his nature that aspect which has now been
given to the evolving Supreme of time and space.  I guess that these words
are in agreement with your statement, that there is value in
disappointment, yes.  Has this helped you, my friend?

Bob S: Yes, but I still have some work to do in that area.  I'm not quite
there yet.

Rayson (Bill): Well, I understand; and I was trying to tell you Jesus
understands your disappointment feelings.  At the same time those feelings
don't have to persist.  They can be sublimated with the higher
understanding of a more complete picture.  

Bob:  Thank you, Rayson.  That was most helpful to me and probably the
others too.  (Comments and agreement.) 
Rayson (Bill): Another thought about this disappointment issue: it does
lead to enhancement and trust in the over-care of God.  If I was not clear
in my point in my previous comments, let me say this then: one begins to
really believe that there is providence in the whole; that one's immediate
plans are not all that matters in life; that one is in fact a part of the
larger unity, and that overall things to do work together for good.  

Often one of the outcomes of disappointment is the resolution provided by
forgiveness.  Some people are disappointed in other people, in how they
behave. Parents have a strong propensity to do this with their children.
While intellectually agreeing that their children have freewill,
emotionally  often they are unwilling to cut the umbilical cord and
continue to be blaming themselves for the decisions of their children.  In
another case  there is the matter of self-disappointment... when you fail
to do what your values dictate.  Here, again, we need forgiveness which is
based upon understanding.  The greater our understanding, the easier it is
to forgive.  This is why God, with his perfect understanding, does not have
to be wheedled and begged to forgive.  He forgives before He is ever asked.  

A final strategy to reduce disappointment is to allow your expectations to
be adjusted.  Perhaps you are perfectionistic in your temperament, and you
put too high a demand upon others and yourself.  When I say "too high" I
mean too high to attain in a reasonable amount of time, which results in
the disappointment experience.  When we say to lower your expectations we
don't mean forever.  We mean for a certain period of time, so that
achievement of the goal is possible and you don't set yourself up to be
constantly disappointed by inappropriately high goals within a narrow

Four things I can summarize here.  Learn that some of your disappointments
will be your greatest blessings.  Learn that you can trust in the over-care
of God.  Learn that your response to disappointment may require
forgiveness.  And learn to set realistic expectations rather than unusually
difficult ones.    With this, my friends, I will complete my conversation
for this evening.  I hope that our time together has been as enjoyable for
you as it has been for me.  I give you now your teacher, Daniel, who will
conclude the meeting.

Daniel (Bob S): This is Daniel.  My friends, have you questions on other
subjects that you would like to raise at this time.  I would like to thank
our brother, Rayson, for his work tonight, which I am sure that we would
all characterize as most helpful, and trust that it will be most thought
provoking.  Now are there questions in the few moments which we have
remaining?  (Pause.)  Hearing none let us conclude our time together with a
word of prayer.  Shall we stand and take each other's hand.  I am told that
Klarixiska wishes to close tonight's time together.  Virginia, are you
willing to transmit?

Virginia: I will.

Klarixiska (Virginia): Father, Who sees us as we one day will be, help us
to face our disappointments by growing, by changing, by becoming that which
You do see.  We thank You that You care for the whole, and that You love
each of us individually, very much the same.  You have given us great
freedom of choice.  We thank You that You have given us every Spirit being,
every energy that is ours ,to walk toward You.  Be with each of us, seen
and unseen, as we walk that path with eager arms to embrace what, one day,
we will be.  Amen.

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