[tmtranscripts] SE IDAHO Transcript 6-8-01

Bill Kelly billk at ida.net
Thu Jun 14 11:45:30 PDT 2001


Opening Prayer: Minearisa(Bill):    May the light within you glow brightly,
brighter and brighter, so that it transcends the limitations of your animal
nature.  Let your mind be the mind of Christ Michael.  Whenever you are in
need, trade your mind for Christ Michael's.  My friends, let us pray.

O Light within each of us, Thou divine Spirit, we worship the Central
Shining on Paradise and we worship Your presence in each of these mortals.
May they learn to respect that God nature which is theirs and is their
brothers'  and sisters'.  Tonight, may words that we speak come through
with conviction, with the aroma of profound truth, and the perfume of
divine love.  So be it.  Amen.
Alana(Bill):   Greetings, my children, my dear friends, I am Alana.  Hello,
again.  I have been at your meetings, but I have not been given the
opportunity to speak with you, once again.  The heart room construct, that
I have been teaching, is not the only thing that concerns me.  It is
intended that I assist Daniel and Minearisa with this curriculum on
relationships.  For you see, my friends, there can be no adequate
discussion of relationships without the male and female aspects.  Indeed,
you have been without a female teacher, except for your personal teachers
who are of that gender.  I am here tonight to let you know that I will be
an integral part of this co-teaching process.

The matter of priorities has been addressed with full adequacy by Minearisa
in the prior meeting so that you understand that relationship is essential
to Deity.  It is essential to universe reality.  It is not possible to have
a personal existence without embracing relationships with other personal

Tonight I again introduce the concept of duality as it is understood in the
seven Superuiniverses.  Duality is of the essence of the time/space
universes as they are created by a Creator Son and Creative Daughter.  The
two of them, our divine Parents, set the structure for the fabric of the
Superuniverses.  Duality is not an option, it is a necessity, for the
universes partake of the nature of their Creators.  Likewise, in the
Central Universe, a Triune God is manifest even in the substance of the
material basis of that perfect and central creation.  But in the
Superuniverses duality reflects the Creators in their essential nature.  As
it filters down from the Creator Son and Mother Spirit all the way to the
level of mortality, so you are born male and female.  Without the opposite
aspects of duality there would be incompleteness.  This is why your text
tells you that a man and a woman can accomplish more than either two men or
two women can do.  Ah, the mystery of the relationship between a man and a
woman!   What a subject to discourse on!  

Let me begin by saying that the relationship between a man and a woman has
to be one of full equality or it is not a fully functional relationship.
On this planet, as you well know, the male sex has the dominance, at least
a majority of the time, and this imbalance has resulted in dysfunctional
relationships between men and women.  The time has come on this
evolutionary world for this imbalance to be redressed.  Wherever there is
the predominance of one gender over the other, the intention of the
universe creators is thwarted.  

This equality of dignity status does not mean the sameness of role
function, however.  Male and female are truly different, almost, indeed,
two different species, although that is not quite correct.  Maleness and
femaleness are apples and oranges.  Both are fruit, but they are very
different.  In a functional and healthy relationship between men and women
each partner, in that relationship, recognizes the assets of the other.
Each partner gives that other person their full due for the abilities and
propensities of temperament and types of thinking that are unique to that
gender.  For women to assume that equality with men means to do a man's job
with a man's approach is a fallacy and is  a major problem in your society
at this time.  Because of the inequality of the past, women are struggling
to gain what they believe to be their rights; when, in fact, what they need
to understand is that they have equal dignity, but their rights are
different, even as a man's rights are different from a woman's.   I realize
that this information is in the Urantia Book, but not all hearers of the
transcripts have read that book; and, indeed, it is a textbook.  We,
teachers, are here to apply its teachings to your everyday lives.  

The ideal relationship of man and woman is fully democratic in regard to
decision making.  Neither partner has the right to usurp the opinion of the
other.  When you force your point of view on the other person, whether you
be the male or the female, you are in violation of dignity status.
Consequently, when you allow yourself to be forced, you are in violation of
your own dignity status.  Both persons need to be assertive, democratic,
and respectful of each other.  

It is in the partnership, molded after the Adamic display, that the family
takes its healthy growth pattern.  The ideal family should reflect the
dignity of each family member so that even the children are allowed a voice
in family decision making.  This is the best procedure.  That does not mean
that children have the same wisdom, experience, and authority that the
parents do, but their wishes should be considered.  If they are
appropriate, they should be put into the mix of family decision making.

For you men, I have these words.  Do not consider that you are giving
equality to your female partners.  You do not have that power.  You are
recognizing that other person in her full dignity status; you are not
conferring that status upon her.  To you women,: cease from resentment
toward the male gender because the patriarchal society was an evolutionary
necessity in order to develop civilization.  While it was oppressive in
large measure, like war, it was a transition phase.  Both men and women are
victims in an unequal relationship.  So let go of any anger toward the male
gender, realizing that both female and male have been victimized.  At the
same time keep in mind the evolutionary necessity of these transition stages.

My friends, we are on the cusp of the beginning of spiritual Springtime.
We are moving into the faintest dawn of Light and Life.  The rays are
touching the tops of the trees, the rays of the sun of Light and Life.  You
are most fortunate, my dear friends, for you live in a time that all other
times before have yearned for.  Yours is a great time in history and you
are the frontrunners.  Oh, yes, many are those who are responding to Spirit
direction, even as you have discussed.  You will see this phenomenon
growing more strongly.

My dears, I appreciate your attentiveness.  I thank Daniel, my partner, for
allowing me to present this evening.  He has offered to chair your
questions and comments.  I give you my brother, Daniel.  One moment please.

Daniel(Bill): Hello, my friends, I am Daniel, your co-teacher, guide, and
friend.  I appreciate very much Alana's excellent description of
relationships between men and women.  Now, I will host any comments or
questions.  Alana will respond if you address them to her.  The floor is

Bob Divine: The question is, the view of gender disparity, is it kind of a
generational one?  That would be one part, as it seems like...there
probably is sexism, I know that, but it seems that some of the younger
generation today..matter of fact, I guess, that it never enters into my
head.  Maybe I am more sexist than I think, and I don't think about it.
But...as a matter of fact, most of my best friends in the world are women,
and the people I feel most comfortable talking to about things.  I am just
wondering about the gender in the generational sense.  Then, personally,
just an understanding of maybe if there is hidden sexism that you don't
even think about what you are doing a lot of the times, but you're totally
oblivious.  It is easy to joke about being sexist, but in the reality
sense, I would like to know more about that for myself, personally.  

Alana(Bill):  This is Alana.   Greetings, dear brother.  There are several
levels to your questions.  I would say first of all that there is a
generational difference, yes, for the younger generations are much more
egalitarian.  Much of the inequality between the sexes is being addressed
in the United States, and some other countries.  But this is limited
somewhat by culture, for in some Moslem countries woman are under attack
and forced to go back to the most rigid and severe bondage as a reaction
against the gradual evolutionary changes.  So it depends on what part of
the globe you are referring to.  I know you were referring to your
immediate experience.  

With respect to unconscious sexism, the answer is that, of course, there
are unconscious sexist actions which are not intended at all, but are
merely the result of cultural habits which you have picked up in your 30+
years of living.  I am not desirous of, or in a position to make judgments
about you personally.  I am making this as a general statement of all
members of the male gender in this culture.  You are all in a stage of
transition.  The important thing I was trying to convey to you was that the
equality of the male and female is far greater than simple role balancing,
but has to do with the duality of male/female, who, while being quite
different from one another, are much more effective as a complimentary

I realize that some men have chivalrous attitudes toward women and they
have these attitudes without any of the  conscious condescension that some
women feel when they are treated with deference. It is a problem,
especially for one who feels they are being chivalrous towards women, and
that women should appreciate their generosity, i.e. as in holding a door
open, for example, or walking on the outside of the sidewalk so the garbage
being thrown out the windows, three hundred years ago, will fall upon the
male member, rather than the female.  All of these things are in transition.  

 The best approach to truly being a "non-sexist" person is to focus on the
spiritual equality, and then recognize the richness of the dual balance.
Does this respond to your comments?

Bob: Yeah, it does. I am curious as a follow up, the idea....sometimes I am
a little frustrated by ...having no...it's like when you...I am doing this
for myself, cause my mind is for personal growth, so I am not talking about
society.  I am talking about my own approach to things and what I have
witnessed.   Sometimes I have found that when looking for insight or
opinion from someone of the opposite sex that they often are more hesitant
in offering their point of view, as though it doesn't really matter or
that....  I can see that as cultural conditioning, sexism in the reverse
sense, that....It is sometimes like I want information from people. If  I
ask my wife, "Where shall we go for dinner?" And it is always my decision.
Certain things like, "Whatever you think, dear".  It's like you want that
equality but sometimes there isn't that.....?  I wondered if you could
comment on that.

Alana: Yes.  It isn't necessarily a bad thing in a marriage when one person
is given deference in certain areas of expertise.  I cannot say for sure,
but perhaps your spouse feels that you are more of a expert in the area of ..

Bob: Food?

Alana: ....food; that it is more important to you than it is to her.
Again, this is just a guess on my part.    So in some marriages there is
this difference in roles where, let us say, the wife, coming from a
traditional background has been trained and really enjoys cooking.   There
must be both factors, not merely the training, but the pleasure in
providing food.  The husband, in this hypothetical example, has no training
in preparing food, and not much interest in it.  This is not a difficult
partnership, for both parties are satisfied with that arrangement.  In this
same marriage, coming from a traditional background, the husband is more
familiar with mechanical things and so assumes responsibility for the
maintenance of the automobiles and other machinery that the wife has no
interest in.  However, as times change, there are women who are very
interested in mechanical things and men who are very interested in cooking.
 Some men always have been, as the chefs in France.   

These things are there to work out.  Again, the principle is, respect the
other person and do not require of that other person that they do as you
do, whether or not they want to, you see.  To force an unwilling husband to
cook every other night, to give a balance in a marriage, as some couples
have done, would be a mistake.  However, that husband might develop a real
interest and pleasure in cooking, so it is hard to say.  

Bob: I understand the common concept that you are trying to relate tonight,
honoring of dignity.

Alana: That's right. 

Bob: ....and not insisting on her going to have to choose where we will go
to dinner.  That would be me trying to force her with my dignity, or force
upon her my desire for her to choose a place.

Alana: That's correct.

Bob: So, I do understand that.  I know this could be a long discussion, so
I will limit my comments.  (Group assent)

Alana: I would like to remind you of one other factor, again referring to
concepts in the Urantia Book   Men and women will never fully understand
each other.  The word is fully understand each other.  It is not meant to
be an excuse to not attempt the understanding.  But it is a realistic
limitation and you do not need to seek out other men or women, as the case
may be, to complain about this communication gap. That is a lessor coping
mechanism.  The better way is to express your misunderstandings and
struggle in the process to relate and understand each other more completely.  

Remember, my friends, even though you have some propensity toward thought
sharing, you are not perfect mind readers.  You still need to express
things verbally or nonverbally in a way to communicate with the other
person.  At the same time the other person needs to practice the skills of
listening.  We will pursue these topics in the future. I believe now we
have completed our time together and Daniel will take the reins back.  He
has allowed more time for discussion.  Just a moment, please.

Daniel(Bill): Yes, thank you, Alana.  I believe there are other concerns.

Lori: Is that you, Daniel?

Daniel: Yes, my dear.  I am Daniel, your friend.
Lori:  I have a question or comment, whatever it turns out to be.  It's so
easy to get caught up in the struggle because of the inherent differences
between male and female personalities.  It seems like the older I get, the
more I realize how big these differences really are.  I don't know where I
was before, but I didn't seem to notice it as much as I do now.  So, what I
am looking for is some guidance on how to shift the focus from the
differences to more easily see the greatness of the duality when it happens
to conjoin.  

Daniel: This is Daniel, continuing.  I will take your question, Lori.  It
is a very important question.  

First of all, let me caution you that you do not resolve the struggle by
putting it aside, anymore than you solve any problem by avoiding it.  So,
the issues of back and forth struggle will remain.  What needs to be done
is to enlarge the picture to see the whole unity of duality.  We are
talking about duality in unity and not simply duality in oppositional

Lori: I knew that.

Daniel:  It is important, because sometimes in the struggle you emotionally
forget that there is this larger reality.  So, one of the most important
ways to keep this in mind is to continue to bring these things into your
prayer time, your stillness time; to ask for guidance; to ask for
compassion; to ask for understanding; to ask for patience, tolerance,
forgiveness, and always that love that is born of true respect for the
spiritual dignity of the other person.  

You have in your culture an aversion to dissimilarity, but not you
personally for you are a very creative person who embraces diversity.  But
diversity is not a value that is accepted across the culture.  It is
professed, but it is not truly accepted.  The reason is that diversity
involves an enlarged understanding.  It involves constant growth and
change.  Another thing you are addressing in your comments is the fact that
as personal beings you are constantly growing with experience; and while
you think you may know another person, that person's habits and thoughts
are undergoing change as well.  That's why no one can predict the outcome
of freewill decisions in another person, mortal or celestial.   Your self
discovery is always incomplete.  Your knowledge of another person is always
incomplete.  So there is no magic wand to wave, no easy answer, for it is a
constant interaction in a relationship which is intense in a marriage, but
is there in every other personal relationship as well.  Have I assisted
you, or do you wish to discuss this further?

Lori: That's very helpful; and I just have one other question.  Is the
desire for someone to be like you an ego driven desire or is it something
that is a cultural response?  Is it something that you have learned,
because when we talk about how diversity isn't really accepted, it kind of
boils down to people want people to be like them.  If you take that to a
personal level you want your partner to be like you, because wouldn't that
be easy?  (Laughter) Is that a cultural thing or is it ego?

Daniel: It is a very complex question that you ask.  There are aspects that
are cultural, but the wisdom is that "birds of a feather, flock together"
It is easier to relate to someone with whom you have common interests and
values.  This is not merely an ego thing but is of the essence of the
reality of your personal nature.  You have a spiritual connection with
someone who values the same thing you do and who is headed in the same
direction.  It is a natural affinity.  As to having the same interests in
terms of activities, this blends into this value thing.  So, again, it is a
natural thing.  It is not natural to the animal nature to accept and
tolerate very different people.  

This process of learning to accept diversity, my friends, has just barely
begun for you.  Just wait till you get the constellations!  (Laughter) Even
on Jerusum, from the many inhabited planets there are varieties of
individuals who vary somewhat.  There is a universe full of beings who
share common spiritual values with you and spiritual dignity, but not
necessarily Thought Adjusters.  Still they have spiritual dignity because
they are person and they are brothers and sisters in God's great universal
family.  No, this is not something that comes naturally.  It is something
that you will learn and struggle with.  However, as you go on, it becomes
easier.  It becomes easier. The mortal life is unique.  It is bedrock
bottom.  There is so much to be learned here.  I say this with all
generosity that you are all wonderful students and you are making great
progress.  Is there another pressing question?

Virginia: Yes, Daniel, there is.  In the comments you made to answer this
question and reflecting on the first question about whether or not it was a
generation gap, I believe that young women, today, are caught up in trying
to do the activities that will please the gentleman that is courting them.
All of a sudden they are interested in mountain bikes or they are into rock
climbing.  I just feel that my generation had a lot more traditional female
roles to play.  But I also believe that the young women of today, who are
eager to please the male, become what that male wants or is doing.  I know
that is a generalized statement and is not true across the board.  But I
believe that the majority of young women are out there pleasing the male,
instead of pleasing themselves.  I guess my question is, am I observing
this, or is it a prejudice that I have?

Daniel: Both.  (Laughter) It is both, my dear, because, as you say, it is a
generalization.  It is also true, sometimes, that men try to please women
and undertake tasks that the women wish them to do.  However, I would have
to agree with you that the majority are going in the other direction,
attempting to please men.  I say both because it has to be partly a
prejudice, for what else can you do but judge from your experience?   I
believe these usual activities in common are another transition in your
progress.  In a perfectly balanced relationship it is possible for each
partner to have their own activities that the other person gives their
blessing to, but is not required to assist them with.  It is also true that
the more things you have in common, which are really meaningful activities,
that are on the spiritual level, service activities and worship, rather
than just sports or hobbies, when you have these things in common, this
tends to solidify the two partner.  Have I addressed this to your

Virginia:: Yes, you have, Daniel.  

You were talking about diversity in the universe, the Grand Universe and
the fact that we are all walking toward one direction, to do the will of
God. I think this is true in our relationships.  The basic value of wanting
to do the will of God is a cement in our relationships.

Daniel: You and Isaac do have this tremendous bond.  I fully agree with
your assessment.  With these words of wisdom that you have just spoken I
will conclude this meeting.  
This is, after all, the fundamental unity that both partners experience  in
desiring to do the will of God: they will see each other as brother and
sister, as yin and yang, as male and female and as one moving toward the
future of a more complete and illustrious career in Paradise ascension.
Thank you for listening to both Alana and me.  Now I request that you all
stand again, holding hands.   Minearisa is desiring to close our time
together, even as he opened it.  One moment please.

Minearisa: We raise our arms to you, Christ Michael, and Nebadonia, our
divine Parents.  May your will be done on this planet.  May we today give
our entire dedication to this project.  Bless these my mortal friends, that
they may be strengthened by the Spirit in their inner being and walk with
joy and spiritual power the road of life.  Amen.

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