[tmtranscripts] 04-21-01 SPOKANE TEAM - Jesus & Aaron
ZooidODell at aol.com
ZooidODell at aol.com
Sun Apr 22 13:44:41 PDT 2001
DATE: April 21, 2001
LOCATION: Spokane, Washington
TEACHERS & TOPICS
JESUS, for a little talk
AARON, around the campfire, sharing truth
JESUS: Good afternoon, children. This is your father/brother Michael. I'd
like to spend a few minutes with you.
GINNY: Hello, Michael.
JESUS: Hello, indeed. I kiss you and acknowledge you ~ as my children ~ and
as my co-workers in this effort ~ to enjoy the spirit life ~ and share the
values of eternity ~ with the material worlds of time and space. My words
this afternoon have to do with how it is that so many people feel that
religion is somehow the panacea, the solution to all ills and the opiate that
allows you to drift through life untroubled, untouched by challenges and
This has never been the case, although sonship is able to provide us with an
affiliation that cannot be enjoyed by and through any other form of reality.
The communion we enjoy with Our Father, as a part of His creation, in the
work He has given us to do and the joys we are given to perceive, makes us
kindred spirits, gives us rightful fellowship. But the far-flung universe
provides far-flung opinions and attitudes and perceptions and approaches to
what Our Father may be leading each individually to perform or present.
This is what I meant when I spoke to James and the others about thinking
alike, because you are indeed all unique, original, and different – even
though you are, yes, all the same in some other regards. [Pg..1591 - §6]
When I ask you to love one another as I have loved you, it is to love you as
a brother accepts another brother, with complete appreciation of the
character and personality of the other, including his strengths and
weaknesses, his sensitivities and humor, his tender feelings and his
I do not love my children simply because they are seen to be perfect. I am
not such an indulgent father as to not recognize what I'm dealing with, and
you are also invited to realize what you are dealing with when you deal with
one another. And yet and still love one another. As I do. And as I did as
a mortal of the realm in your company. Just as you today sit with me in
moments like these and realize the extent of my devotion to Our Father, to my
universe, and to you -- our children.
I long ago told you that to follow me was not to be a life of ease but a sure
pathway to trouble. Now your challenge is to manifest godlikeness in your
humanness ~ to reflect the fruit of the vine ~ to witness to the divine
nature by portraying the qualities of you in communion with spirit.
It gives me supreme delight to see you come together to further understand
our work, our relationship, and to give praise to Our Eternal Parents in
their design of life everlasting in service. I will stay with you during
your session today and be with you as your brother. I enjoy observing your
sessions and sitting in quietly and observing how you take your lessons to
heart and practice your principles in the arena, bringing your experiential
situations back to share with your fellows in search of understanding. Peace
be upon you.
AARON: Aaron here. I'm feeling very young at the moment, in the presence of
our elder brother and senior advisor here. He is a marvelous personality,
even to us who work with him on a different level than you, who know him from
a different vantage point than you. We enjoy the Michael Son for his wisdom.
He always has the right response. He always has a correct answer. He
always provides the right attitude. For Him the door is always open. He
always knows where to find the key. He is far beyond my capacity to
comprehend, and yet I feel as if I am close friends with Him and He with me.
And so while we have much to learn in our future relationship, the
repleteness we share in our moments together today, lack nothing, is
impervious to want. I cannot help but wonder if this is something of what He
means to say when He asks us to love each other as He loves us ~
under-standing that in future our relationship will develop and grow but, as
it is now, it is a treasure to have, complete and true as it is.
I see no flaw in Michael of Nebadon, but I cannot imagine He is able to
perceive of me as also without flaw, for I am aware of how much I have to
learn yet before I am ascended any farther than I am today; thus I give my
attention and my efforts to where I am today, for as I master my challenges
and opportunities as set before me, I stand a chance of being promoted/
advanced/ uplifted and brought into another and greater reality tomorrow, as
is a natural course of events in the unfolding of perfection.
While Michael presumes to conjoin with us in the guise of Jesus of Nazareth,
I am able to enjoy our campfire here for we can think in terms of how it was
in days of old with the original apostles when Jesus sent them out two and
two into the towns and provinces whereupon they would work their way through
the men and women of that time in an effort to introduce them to our loving
Father in heaven in such a way as to personalize their experience, increasing
the spiritual capacity then of the individual and subsequently the world ~
coming home then and discussing the experiences that were had in those
arenas, and coming to better understandings and appreciations of their
efforts and of the people they were trying to meet.
What then have you formulated, daughter, to present to our good Teacher as to
your experience in the field?
GINNY: Are we obliged or are we being asked to correct -- Oh! That sounds
really arrogant, but -- to correct something that's wrong? Something
erroneous, or what we think is erroneous, or what may be incorrect? It's
hard to ask a question like this. If we say that everybody's beliefs aren't
valid, then ... There is such a thing as truth! To me. And once we discover
that, how do we handle it? Like.... What ...?
AARON: Tell me first how you perceive of truth. What is truth to you? When
you say you know truth, what do you refer to?
GINNY: Well, I guess I'm referring to the facts of how this universe runs.
Like, who we are and where we come from and our destiny.
AARON: This is not so much "truth" as it is "true". There is a difference.
That which you refer to are facts. That is the basis of theory, the
foundation of belief systems; it is intellectual appreciation, and yet it is
not truth as truth is presented to be a quality of divinity.
Your world is a material existence, true, and a shadow of divinity, in that,
it is so dense and far removed from spirituality. (You've got me locked into
theory now, just through defining our terms!) But if you want to witness to
Our Father, and glorify Him, a presentation of facts surrounding His
creation, these super-universes, this hierarchy, this organization of cosmic
reality which you have learned from Urantia Papers, is certainly a way of
portraying God's greatness, but it will not portray His greatness in such a
way as will touch their hearts and thus convert them to, move them to
appreciate Him as a reality in their own personal experience. This is Truth!
This Truth needs no explanation, requires no definition, for it is of a
Source, an Origin of supremacy far beyond your mortal comprehension. When
you say, "I know that I know," it is THIS of which you speak. When you talk
about theory, facts, philosophy and cosmology, you also are sharing what you
know, but you are sharing what you know as a mental representation of what
Truth lies in your heart.
However, I am not certain that is how far you wanted to go or whether you are
going in another direction than from where you were in the beginning and I
would like to say that I am going to invite Thoroah into this conversation
for I'm not comfortable monopolizing the floor. I enjoy hearing from you.
You are the workers. You are the ones. I need to hear your points of view
for clarification, not mine.
THOROAH: I think, from my perspective, you explained the way that I would
attempt to explain. I demonstrate that which I know I know, and I talk about
that which I think I know, as well as what I know I know. And I think we get
lost sometimes in what we think we know. I found that what I thought I knew,
I only knew part of it until I knew. Which sounds like a lot of double talk
but it ... I've learned in my process, having gone through a number of
things, going 100%, going all the way to the wall for a belief, to find that
I either went past the belief into something new or that the belief that I
thought I had was just the tip of an iceberg that I discovered. So it's hard
for me to hang my hat on what I believe. If somebody was to ask me what I
believe, I'd have to make it as simple and as broad-based as possible.
AARON: Even the gospel, which is the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood
of man, as simple as it is, can be rejected because of the gender thing or
because of the word "gospel".
THOROAH: The "brotherhood of man" is probably one of the safest things to
start with, because we have shown to ourselves on this material world that
there is indeed a much larger universe out there and that we are just a small
part of it, and so the concept of our brother hood, might be easier for some
to understand or accept than necessarily the Fatherhood of God. If we agree
on a beginning-hood, in general, a creator-hood,... but somehow there has to
be a sense of it all being very friendly, very supportive, and a reflection
of the love that operates the universe. I would go that far to saying to
people that I believe it's a friendly universe.
AARON: It is a friendly universe, yes, even though there are humans in
situations who would find that hard to believe under the circumstances but
these nuances of value and reality are understood best in the experiential
depth of the moment and not on our mountaintop experience of discussing these
theories around the campfire.
THOROAH: Talk is cheap, evidently.
AARON: And yet the right words at the right moment are as food for the
hungry. The subject you were discussing before we came online was and is of
infinite value in terms of conveying truth to your hearers, for so many of
you are so happy to have found the Urantia Papers and the truths therein
(both Truth and that which is true), you are eager to ascribe all of your
beliefs as being based on its precepts. And having found this satisfaction
for yourself, you would share it with others. This is understandable. In
fact the text itself is a presentation of the Master such as to induce a new
appreciation for His personality and His life among you, and open up the
hearts and minds of men and women in a meaningful way, such that, were all of
humanity infused with an appreciation of our Creator, our combined hearts
would be filled to overflowing with love for Him, and our planet might take a
quantum leap forward into a spiritually enlightened state. But a book is
also an icon of a sort that can be a handicap to those of you who are yet in
its protective coverings and unmindful of other ways in which to bring about
the enduring and endearing truths which are held within its bindings.
Let me remind you of John the Baptist who was imprisoned in the day of the
appearance of Michael on Urantia in the fourth epochal revelation to mankind.
And John cried out from his cell for word from Jesus as to what he might
expect, and when word came to Jesus, he sent back a message to John to not
stumble over him on the way to the Father. Do you think you could draw a
parallel here? If the Book is the Revelation, as Jesus was the Revelation,
could the Revelation say to you, "Don't stumble on me on the way to the
Father"? Your spiritual experience is a direct connection between you and
the Father and, more immediately, It resides within, requiring no theory, no
philosophy, no definition, no papers, no persons, but only that divine thread
which connects you to That Which is Without Name and Number.
However, as teachers and preachers, you are encouraged to use any and all
materials at your disposal to stimulate the growth of the God-consciousness
of your fellows.
You are lost in thought, deep in contemplation. Come forth!
GINNY: I guess, I believe – I think that– For me,.... Again,... As you
said,.. My own personal experience with God ... that it needs to be personal.
It can't just be gotten from a book, but in my case, the information in this
book has led me to a deeper faith, a deeper love of Michael and the Father.
GINNY: So this is what I'm trying to say: that this is my experience; that
if correct information has led me to deep, deeper connection with the Father
-- and that's what I'm saying -- Be eager to pass on this information so that
others might possibly experience what I have experienced.
AARON: Yes, indeed.
GINNY: Not that reading the Urantia Book is the only path to the Father,... –
I hope I don't mean that. It's MY path, and a very important path for me.
AARON: You are right to be impressed! It is an impressive product! My
concern has to do with what your appreciation for what you regard as your
truth and your belief ....
GINNY: Well, I try to practice being open to listening to others' experience
AARON: Yes. They too have their beliefs and books. If it is brought to a
level of competition, it is hardly a reflection of how Jesus loves his
GINNY: Well, if I believe and feel something is true, like – I'm just giving
the example, like Jesus was married to Mary Magdeline or there was no
Nazareth or stuff like that. Or the entombment, you know. Jesus did not die
for our sins, that kind of stuff. I just ... I don't know. If I feel very
strongly about something, then it's hard for me not to be intense about it.
AARON: By the same token, if you feel that strongly about what you believe
in, it is no threat then to you for you to be able to visit the beliefs of
your fellows in order to find value within their framework, in which case you
can support that which compares favorably with the truth as you understand
it, while overlooking or minimizing the effects of those which run counter to
GINNY: I'm reminded of Michael, his time on earth, how he handled all these
situations where people had doubts and questions, were acting – like, picture
Jesus smacking his head and saying "I could've had a V-8!" or being a little
frustrated about the density of the people, that they weren't getting it, so
I very often think about what he did and ... not what he said so much as how
he said it and what he did. They certainly had this immense truth to give to
those around him and a lot of them just weren't getting it. I can imagine
Well, maybe not! Maybe there was no frustration. Maybe there was just more
love. Thank frustration. So that's where I'm at.
AARON: The ability to perceive the capacities of the hearer as empty vessels
wanting to be filled or not open to whatever he might have to give, or
whatever you might have to give, is an advantage we might all aspire to
discern. That would certainly alleviate a lot of expended energy spinning
your wheels. The Master was always willing to stop and teach and minister in
his days of teaching the multitudes. He would get in his boat and push off
from shore to be able to see them and they him. He could feel the emptiness,
the hunger, the spiritual hunger of the people and the Father, through him,
fed the people.
If there were on empty vessels he could fill, he wiped the dust from his feet
and went on to the next town. If the people were not listening to him, as
they stood there, do you think he would have wasted his time teaching and
preaching to those who were busy, murmuring among themselves, making change,
selling pigeons, hustling women, negotiating politics, or whatever it is that
humanity occupies itself with in the main? He was able to perceive whether
or not he was feeding the hungry. How valuable that perspective would be!
THOROAH: We could use a lesson or three on developing that perception.
GINNY: How do
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