Pocatello Transcript 2-20-98

[Bill Kelly]

March 20, 1998

Business
Sharing and Prayer

Daniel (Bill):  Greetings, dear friends.  This is Daniel, your teacher,
guide, friend and mentor.  We are, as always, absolutely delighted to be in
your presence while you take your steps of faith and courage, of humor and
of honesty down the path of your mortal career.  Know that, for most of us,
we have experienced this mortality.  We are familiar and vividly remember
the kinds of problems that have been discussed among you.  My friends, I
would remind you that you only have one mortal life, only one existence in
full physical form and then the remainder of the ascension career is a mix
with spirit, of morontial ever progressing toward a maximum of spirit until
you are pure spirit.  Therefore your mortal existence is paramount.  It is
no accident that the Gods have chosen to endow the mortal creatures who
ascend to Paradise with the greatest responsibilities in the universe, for
your experience is unparalleled.  It is the fullest drinking of the cup of
existent experience that is possible in the finite universe.  

Yes, I am Doctor Daniel tonight and I wish to talk about this subject of
pain, its purpose and its value.  Remember that pain is a built-in feedback
mechanism in all living animal life whereby the organism is given the signal
that there is danger, there is a problem that needs to be addressed.  The
purpose of pain is never torture nor punishment but in its original
intention it is a signal to arouse the organism to correct a problem which
the pain is addressing.  Inasmuch as you are fully physical creatures, these
pains which are experienced therefore are telling you that there needs to be
changes made to address the cause.  Your defenses are such that, at first,
it is easy to deny the reality of the pain to yourselves, to minimize it.
This is unfortunately in error, for when you do not respond with appropriate
action to pain, damage will occur.  I could cite many examples, but this
principle is rather obvious.  There is, of course, physical pain pure and
simple, which has been discussed this evening.  Then there is other kinds of
pain:  the pain of fear, the pain of guilt, the pain of anxiety, the pain of
loss, the pain of failure, and the pain of despair.  I am referring in these
comments, while primarily focusing on physical pain, to the reality of
mental and emotional pain as well.  

My first point, my friends, is that pain is your friend.  Pain is not your
enemy.  It comes to bring you a reality check - to present where you need to
make changes, whether it be a surgical procedure, whether it be a change in
diet, a lifestyle change, a renunciation of bad habits, or the adoption of
better ones; whatever may be appropriate, pain is your friend.  

My second point is to say that you need to accept the reality of the message
that the pain brings you rather than employ denial and minimization.  It is
difficult for healthy people to be stricken with accidental events or
finding themselves a prey to disease.  This difficulty is experienced in the
process of aging because your culture is afraid of death and does not
realize fully the benefits that accepting the changes that are inevitable in
your body can bring, as well as the wisdom that can come with the
accumulation of years.  

The third point that I wish to make is that, having recognized pain as a
friend, having listened seriously to its warnings, that you then take the
necessary action.  Gather all information that you can, which is one of the
reasons that I am thrilled to hear your sharing this evening, for you have
here in your small group vast experiences, vast reservoirs of information
and of wisdom.  And then, after gathering your information, bring it into
your stillness and ask your Indwelling Spirit for guidance.  Ask and you
shall receive.  I will promise you this.  And then, when you have heard, and
when you have a sense of what is to be done, gird up your loins, pull up
your pants (editor's note - Bill has been suffering from shingles pain and
it is more comfortable for him to sit with his pants loosened), put on your
coats or whatever, and go out and do what needs to be done.  

And you will benefit greatly, for first of all you will alleviate the pain,
unless it is an impossible situation, of course, and you will also gain
valuable experience -that most useful domain called patience.  In a culture
that "wants it NOW, wants it yesterday, wants it all" you lack maturity
because you are childish in this respect.  Therefore, the patience that you
gain enables you to see that God is at work patiently in the evolution of
the Supreme and that the magnificent completion of His destiny, which
includes us all, will be worth the long wait of eons and eons of slow
perfection being obtained step by step, moment by moment.  

My friends, you do not fear death because you know it is a passageway to
your next status as Morontia Progressors.  You have in your faith and
knowledge such reservoirs of strength that you could literally supply a
great number of thirsty and hungry souls with the morsels of life, with the
drink of eternity.  I know it is your desire to do this, and you are already
in this process.   Know that patience is one of your shortfalls, for you
haven't lived the number of years on this planet that mortals live on
planets such as the one where I came from, where in the space of several
hundred years great wisdom is obtained.  While at this point in your history
nothing can be done to change this fact,  if you will take maximum benefits
from your experiences with pain, with frustration, with grief, pain in all
its nuances, you will make great progress.  

I have concluded my comments and I will introduce you to familiar faces.
Even though you cannot see us, literally, I have with me this evening Ham
and Aaron, who are eager to interact.  What we propose this evening is that
you may comment or question any of the three of us, specifically, even
though I have given the lesson for this evening.  Understand that we
developed this lesson while we listened to your sharing.  Therefore it is
not the one that had been prepared.  Any of the three of us or all, as the
case may be, can interact with you.  We will use all three TRs if they are
willing.  It is now your turn.

Virginia:  Teachers, I think in terms of some maybe foolish well-known
sentences from the pulpit.  I can remember hearing "Give 'til it hurts"
which certainly would suggest pain, and the statement, "There is no gain
without pain."  And I know in physical therapy and some other procedures
that probably most of us have taken part in (visits to the chiropractor,
etc.) there is a certain amount of pain and it can be productive. I'm not
sure why I'm thinking out loud here, but emotional pain that has been so
destructive in past and present relations is a little more difficult to
pinpoint and find healing for.  And I know we're talking here mostly about
physical, you did mention these, but any other comments on emotional or pain
that comes through relationships would be appreciated.

Daniel (Bill):  I will make a comment briefly, Virginia.  This is Daniel.
It appears that part of you at least is questioning the value of pain.  Is
that correct?

Virginia:  I'm sure I question the value of some pain.  Physically we know
it's an alert, and physical pain is something that's necessary for therapy
to push those muscles and tendons back to normal.  But I think emotional
pain that is caused by others to individuals whether they be innocent or
not, that's the pain that perhaps would not be respected or wanted.  

Daniel (Bill):  You see, the pain you refer to has an origin in a physical
circumstance.  Children witnessing violence between their parents
internalize it and feel empathically the same kind of pain or similar pain
that the victim or the parties in combat feel.  They, also, assume
responsibility for the conflict, for those fights can often be over
discipline.  The purpose of children experiencing pain in this kind of
setting is still beneficent, for it is intended to protect them from harm,
to lead them away from the possible physical contact that could occur and to
follow the flight instincts which are intuitive in the human animal body.
The pain initially then, I'm trying to say, has a good purpose - protection.  

What causes injury is the interpretation of the events which result in a
child's self-esteem being lowered: if they assume responsibility for the
fighting, if they take the blame; if they feel responsible to stop the
fighting, and because they are only children, powerless to do so, and take
upon them that guilt as well. They may conclude that the world is a
dangerous place and that they must keep to themselves, for no other human
can be trusted and no one will truly care for them.  Then they are most of
all to be pitied.  

You see then it is the interpretation that leads to the damage in
self-esteem.  For the interpretation can lead to a lifelong experience of
guilt and shame until they discover that they are not truly at fault, that
they could have done nothing more than they did, that their escape was the
right thing to do.  And for the other case, the person who concludes that
the world is his enemy, he or she has the greatest need of all to encounter
a friendly universe.  My purpose in this lengthy example is to clarify for
you where the problem lies in emotional pain so that it can be dealt with
and released.  Has this been helpful to you, my dear?

Virginia:  Yes, Daniel.  Thank you.  I think interpretation is always the
most difficult because that has something to do with misinterpreting other's
motives.  

Daniel (Bill):  And a child is not capable of understanding.

Virginia:  Right.  It's much more difficult for them to separate their own
emotions from the event.  So yes, thank you.

Bob S:  Teachers, I'm curious about the pain that accompanies terminal
illness.  What is the role or value of those situations to the person who is
dying and to those who are friends and associates and have to see all this
pain a person is trying to deal with?

Aaron:  Let us look at the role with a more general overview detached from
the circumstance.  Pain in and of itself is neutral, meaning it does not
favor one for another.  Physical pain is a signal of the body being
stretched either to its limits or beyond its limits.  Therefore it is
inescapable without utilizing preventative or diminishing measures to reduce
the effects of pain upon the person.  There is no particular purpose for the
pain itself to exist of a physical nature beyond what it represents within
the body.  A personality has choices to make regarding any situation that
occurs which has influence upon them and truly it comes down to choice of
how one will react to circumstances affecting them.  So pain, although
neutral, provides a platform for a personality to react and it serves a
purpose in that the personality may choose how they will be affected or how
they will respond to these influences.  Believe me when I say that there is
no particular pleasure taken in witnessing a person debilitated by pain.
There is no initial purpose for the creation of pain within a personality.
Only when pain does exist, when it has arisen, is there an opportunity for a
personality to react. This is no different from any other circumstance
within your life, be it a fortunate occurrence or an unfortunate occurrence,
you will react in some manner to any influence.  Pain is simply one instance. 

As far as the emotional impact of witnessing one debilitated by pain that
you hold dear, again as a result of this neutral happening, these
personalities are influenced in some manner causing them to reflect and make
choices regarding how this will impact them.  The Jesusonian method is to,
in all ways possible, react positively toward any circumstance that comes
before you.  To the extent that personality can react positively when faced
with adverse situations will they find the benefit of a spiritual nature.
This does not necessarily mean that to act in some way negatively diminishes
the status of the personality, for there is great mercy accorded to all
concerned in these circumstances.  Let us say in some sense these situations
are an opportunity for deep personal growth which comes through such
conflict and struggle.  And while many of these situations create scars of a
lasting nature, this in no way diminishes the fact that the opportunity for
growth and perspective was present and existing in the circumstance, in any
circumstance.  I hope in some manner I have clarified your question, my friend. 

Bob S:  Yes, that helps.  Thank you.

Aaron:  I am Aaron, by the way.  Greetings, folks.

Ham (Cathy):  This is Ham.  In support of Daniel and Aaron's treatises on
the subject, pain in this mortal existence, be it physical pain or
mental/emotional pain, is indeed a neutral phenomenon.  It is often
beneficial if one can achieve the jump in semantics to perceive pain as a
stimulus or a catalyst to change.  It is often when a person is most in pain
that he or she will finally reach out and acknowledge their needs and their
truest desires.

Pain may also be beneficial on this level in terms of interconnectedness and
connectivity between personalities.  You may have noticed during tonight's
sharing, (for we did), that those persons who had experienced similar
episodes of pain or discomfort in the past connected immediately on an
emotional level with those who were describing current pain.   And in this
way, personalities developing on this rather primitive evolutionary planet
are more likely to be empathetic and sympathetic with another's situation.
On the morontial level this also occurs, but it is in a much different
framework and difficult to describe.  But you might be interested to know
that the huge amphitheaters that we use as stadiums, as you would refer to
them, are much like you would perceive of as a movie except that you feel
along with the "players" every emotion, every feeling, every hurt, every
desire as they feel it.  

One final note is that pain is occasionally purposeless and this type of
pain occurs when one experiences so much internal anxiety, grief and
resistance to change that this emotional pain actually somaticizes and
manifests as physical pain.  And this can occur when a person is dying
because of many regrets or feelings of guilt or shame or simply an
unwillingness or fear of leaving the corporeal being for what is as yet
unknown to you.  This is Ham.  

Virginia:  Ham, thank you very much for that comment in that I can think of
people who have died in pain but in peace.  And others who have died in pain
with tremendous fear are certainly more expressive of their pain, great
hostility and anger.  That's some very interesting things to think about.  

I have a personal question to ask Ham.  Whenever I read the transcripts from
Nashville, I am both surprised, and  not understanding how these people that
go to the meetings can have such personal comments from you. I wonder if you
would speak on that.

Ham:  May I discuss comfortableness?  For when the personalities in
attendance are comfortable with one another, there is a capability for a
freer flow of information, one to the other.  In the same manner, when the
transmitter/receiver is fully comfortable with the connection to the
celestial is there a possibility for an impartation of information more
directly personal to those inquiring for personal information.  Most often
as I respond, it is in response to a particular question or desire of a
personality to hear such information in a group setting.  For the largest
part we shy away from speaking in an intimate and vulnerable manner with an
individual in a group setting unless it is more specifically asked for,
mainly because the exposure can produce feelings of inadequacy and shame, if
it is unexpected and not more directly requested.  

The group that I have in Nashville are aware that I am willing to share
personal thoughts with them about growth and efforts and therefore as a
group they are willing to hear such thoughts, to even ask for advice and
insight.  Each group has particular capabilities and degrees of
willingness..   You are very comfortable as a group with each other.  Your
camaraderie exists even aside from ourselves.  We are not the glue that
truly holds you together, but we are a secondary influence to your
socialization.  Other groups are more dependent for their functioning upon
either written revelation or first-hand efforts toward communication.  This
diversity is as it should be.  Let me say that if a person requests
personal information from a celestial in general they will be answered
either in private or publicly, depending on the situation.  I hope this has
clarified for you, Virginia.

Virginia:  Thank you, Ham.  I appreciate those comments.

Daniel (Bill):  I am Daniel and I wish to address this issue for I am
familiar with the thoughts of my beloved Deborah, who felt that such
commentary bordered on fortune-telling.  But I support Ham's comments for it
is not our purpose as celestials, as teachers and guides, to act in any
manner that would interfere with your free-will choices.  It is true that
we, I, often give you feedback as a group - just as intimate and just as
truthful as Ham's feedback is to individuals.  There is also one more factor
which has been alluded to which is Rebecca's talent to be willing and able
to risk the kinds of sensitivity and intimacy in TRing what she hears.
Because of TR fears, some topics are too scary or too unfamiliar to allow
the kind of interaction that the celestial might wish could occur.  Rebecca
is a most amazing woman/daughter of God, for it was her courage to take what
would be normally attributed as psychosis and spread it before her friends
thus initiating on this continent the first Teaching Mission group.  Her
courage has been publicly commended before and therefore I am not remiss in
these remarks.  Your beloved Deborah was also a most unique and wonderful
person.  Her personality structured the parameters of celestial interaction
in the same manner as it does with any TR.  Has this helped?  

Virginia:  Thank you very much.  I really appreciate those remarks and do
realize that those two women are and were courageous indeed and unique in a
space where they were willing to step out into the unknown.  Thank you,
Daniel, for those comments.

Daniel (Bill):  My friends, the hour has come to terminate our interaction.
I hope that our input into your earlier sharing will bear fruit.  I wish you
to continue my assignment now that you have clarified it from last week and
tell me how you feel when we make assessments about your progress and how we
feel about you.  As you do this, please examine your feelings carefully and
look for contamination from past experience.  Ask yourself if your
evaluation of our commentary is objective or whether it is colored by the
prohibitions and the negativeness of your past experiences.  I hope that in
saying this I will not prejudice you unduly either, but would just suggest
that you become as objective as you can in this process.  Our love for you
all is so great and we are so pleased to be your friends, your counselors,
your teachers, your guides.  For Ham and Aaron and myself, good evening.