[tmtranscripts] Elyon Group 9/19/99
Rick P. Giles
RickGiles at prodigy.net
Tue Sep 21 08:59:41 PDT 1999
Coeur d'ALene Teaching Mission Group
Teachers: Malvantra, Elyon
September 19, 1999
Ginnie: If a teacher needs a focal point to start with us today, I have a
question about how we can follow our spiritual urges and at the same time deal
with relationships that take a lot of time and energy. How do we keep a
relationship going with someone who has not spent much time on spiritual
* Malvantra (Jonathan TR): This is Malvantra. I can address your question.
Each situation will be its own unique set of circumstances, though these
relationships take on patterns that have similarity. When the spiritual
dimension in one individual is lacking or dormant, this complicates the
situation. It is not insurmountable but would bring far greater work to the
progress of friendship than would two people motivated on a spiritual path. This
realm of spiritual perspective, of theological conception, can seem unimportant
to physical creatures so largely oriented toward the external world, that
certainly one could live without it if the friendship is there. But this is not
Imagine, for instance, having a relationship with another personality that
does not have a body. This you would find difficult for that entity to be
spiritual and mental. Would you continue a relationship of an intimate nature?
Likewise, if an individual lacked mind, this would make your values shift and
your goals change regarding just how you are going to pursue relationship. So,
the spiritual is extremely important. I do however, express that -- and I
realize you well understand that the spiritual quality isn't simply intellectual
understanding of religious principles but rather that personal drive toward
higher ideals, toward enacting truth in your life, toward enhancing the moral,
the beautiful. To decide the parameters of a relationship one must honestly ask
oneself and sincerely face the feelings and the thoughts that you respond to
yourself with, "Am I involved to be a minister, to guide another soul into birth
in a spiritual sense? Or is this relationship that I desire one that is to
an equal footing?" Both choices are good in themselves, but you must value the
import of either one at the given time and choose appropriately.
Since there are many mortals on Urantia in need of spiritual ministry, you
do not have to take on the task with a significant or romantic relationship. It
is far more empowering in one's growth and ministry if there is mutual support,
if there is, in the times of withdrawal from the activities of life, an infusion
of energy, understanding, sympathy, and encouragement from one nearly equal to
yourself in a spiritual sense. It is far more exhausting to be on the job,
speak, when you are more appropriately in need of retreat. But I speak of this
in regard to those intimately personal relationships of love as you have
discussed today, for this type of friendship breaks down some of those personal
boundaries that everyone can retreat into for recuperation, and this
overlaps those boundaries.
In all other relationships one need be very careful not to evaluate that
another individual is not spiritually active in order to be a friend, a
co-worker, a business partner. You do understand that the spiritual dimension
infuses life with eternal values, higher ideals of living. But you still retain
your boundaries for retreat in these other relationships. You are available to
be an example, to let your fruits show, but you are not obligated to avoid a
relationship because the individual is spiritually stagnant. It is this
of personality that I seek to impress upon you as important to guard, for it is
from this center that you spring forward to be of assistance to your fellows in
many ways. Few individuals are received into this inner arena. Michael, as he
lived on this world, carefully chose three apostles to share this inner circle
with him, but often he spent this retreat alone in the hills with the Father.
Yet he engaged with a vast array of personality types, differing inclinations,
and at different rungs of the spiritual ladder. He did not avoid them because
they were pagans or sinners. He sought them out. But when it was time to be in
care of his own nourishment, he chose carefully who he would be with.
Does this provide thoughts for consideration?
Ginnie: Yes, very much. Thank you. I think of the story of Jesus and
the prostitutes. He didn't try to give any elevated thoughts to them, because
that is not what they needed. He gave them what they needed.
* Malvantra: Quite true, and his leaving them with others provided those
others the opportunity for ministry that he was quite capable of providing, but
they now had the opportunity to be in service for Michael.
The entire subject of relationship is as dynamic as living creatures are.
An inanimate object simply is what it is from manufacture and changes only
through the disruptions or erosions, accidents or conditions of time. But
life-bearing creatures are continually on the move, dynamic in every sense. Put
two of these dynamos together, and even more complexity arises.
You have read where it says that your ideals will always outpace your
ability to live up to them. Harmony in a relationship is always just beyond the
ability of the participants to live up to. It is truly more a goal than it is a
condition. Urantia culture teaches that you are a better person when you attain
something, some level, as in schooling, career, marriage, house, children. So,
the drive continues on, generation after generation seeking these attainments,
which in reality are not ends but the beginnings of even more involvement, more
growth. To attain one of these goals -- let's choose career as an example
gets the job. One receives their office assignment, their desk, their
materials. They have accomplished the goal of a "career". But the work has
begun. Relationships are quite similar. It is easy to meet another, to
befriend, to acknowledge another, but the work has only begun in the
that relationship, the infusion of greater significance in that relationship.
Goals are sought-for ends. Ideals, in relation to goals, express the
manner in which a goal will be reached, the method whereby you will attain this
end. To have a goal in life is good, for it provides a focus in the distance
wherein you may direct your path to reach, but it is the ideal that will carry
you toward that goal. To be involved intimately with another individual is a
good goal, but the ideals will be what drives the relationship forward. This
will be ever-changing and must remain flexible, for it entails two freewill
* Elyon (Ginnie): I will add some thoughts. This is Elyon.
As you progress in your ascension you begin your progress as a will
creature in very basic ways. Much of relating in early primitive times was
simply based on survival, material survival: eating, procreating,
you grew out of these early, primitive relating states you began to see other
ways of being together for other purposes. As you progress both as a
individually, you begin to go beyond physical survival to the survival of your
soul, of your personality. That is when the spiritual element infuses you, when
you begin to grasp the importance of the survival of your personality. Then you
begin to see relationship as more than fighting for possession of things, more
than the survival of your ego, more than greed. You go beyond those things to
the things that matter for your personality survival and your personality
development. It is at this point when a personality understands that there is a
part of himself that needs nurturing. He or she will begin to live a life of
relationship which nourishes that part of them.
Indeed, it is a matter of choice. Most relationships -- and I speak
primarily of between man and woman on Urantia -- are ones of struggle to
the ego, and anything that goes beyond that is certainly on "spiritual"
Relationship exists on all levels of your progression. Even on Paradise
you will be relating; you will be dealing with how you are with other beings,
what choices you make. So, you can look forward to a long, long career of
Unfortunately Urantia is involved in putting certain kinds of relationships
ahead of others as more important than the development and growth of the
personality. It is then that things go wrong, because each person is seeking
his or her true personality, their true identity, and it continues to be a
struggle to clear away the debris of the material trappings of your world to get
to a place where relationship can survive.
It is certainly a blessing when two individuals feel a connection with each
other. It is important to nourish that on whatever level it is but not to push
it, force it, beyond what it can handle. Joy and lightness are indicative of
true love, and the struggle involved is simply something that has to be dealt
with so that both individuals can reach a point where their values are on a
similar level. Otherwise there will be conflict, and the conflict itself will
bring about more insight into your relationships.
Do not disregard petty arguments as a waste of time because they have to be
gotten through; they have to be dealt with to clear the air, so to speak, so
each can go beyond the uncomfortable place that they are in, as you all can
recall looking back at times when you thought you were the cat's meow. Indeed,
you may laugh now because you think you can see the true reality from this
vantage point. So it will be many years from now you will look back and see
you are doing to yourself now that seems silly.
Learn to appreciate everything, every relationship that you have whether
it be friendship or relationship with you mate or your children or nature or the
animals or money. Learn to appreciate all of it so that you may make better
choices when it comes to deciding the quality of your relationships. Learn to
bless each contact that you have, for you can learn from all of them. No
relationship is wasted time.
It has been a pleasure to hear your discussions, for relationship, indeed,
is a work of art and a thing of beauty.
Thank you for your time.
* Malvantra (Jonathan): This is Malvantra again. I'd like to pitch a few
more thoughts your way.
Oftentimes a relationship is approached because the individual seeks the
fulfillment of needs. Without discounting the value of meeting needs, a
relationship takes on a greater dimension when needs are no longer a part of the
picture. Often a marriage relationship will break up because needs aren't being
met. Other times it breaks up because all needs are met, and boredom has
Being involved with another individual simply for the sake of being involved
another individual is what will bring lasting relationship. The time you spend
in stillness with the Father, as extremely important as it is for your own
growth, it is also very beneficial for every relationship you have, for it is in
this experience of the divine that true happiness is discovered and attained
that no other thing, no other being in your life, is needed such that you
happy when that desired result is attained. Rather, attaining an inner
and taking that into any relationship will bring about the joyful aspects of
I too am happy to be with you today to share in your conversation. This
form of relationship, man and woman, lovers, is not an ordinary melchizedek
experience. But what you gain in this undertaking in your mortal life will
repercuss throughout your entire morontia career and will be an important
foundation to your spiritual life beyond. So it is good that you consider every
I take my leave.
* Elyon (Ginnie): I have one short thing to say about intimacy, because that
is what you are all seeking.
You can be intimate with yourself. You can be intimate with another human.
You can be intimate with the Father. You can be intimate with nature. To
true, fulfilling relationship in development it is important that you remember
all aspects of your being, that your intimacy with yourself and with God is also
important before you can develop intimacy with another.
That is all.
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